Category Archives: General Discussion

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A time line of Symptoms

We  have taken note of members requesting an ‘easy’  way to find out the time line of symptoms for each member and possibly how this can be updated.

We previously posted this suggestion back in 2011 and there was no interest at this time (possibly because we didn’t have the member numbers to make this worthwhile):

The aim of this thread is to allow people to clearly see the time line of symptoms of each member – for example

1 month – Anxiety (severe), insomnia (severe), muscle twitches (severe),                               headaches (moderate)

2 months – Anxiety (moderate), insomnia (severe), muscle twitches (slight)

3 months – Anxiety (moderate), insomnia (moderate), tinnitus (severe), dry mouth (severe), mouth ulcers (severe)

This helps to see what symptoms have been constant the whole time, which symptoms have come and gone completely, which symptoms have varied in intensity and symptoms that have started at a later date than the initial symptoms………Not only will this give an idea of what symptoms we all share and possible symptoms that may occur during the recovery process but also allows you to track your own progression.  It is hard for me to recall exactly what symptoms I had at 5 months but I am sure if I had written them down exactly I would see MAJOR improvement and this can help us to feel positive.

You can continually edit your post and update it each month – so there should only be one comment per member and this comment will eventually show the full time line the member has had from injection to recovery.

We are looking at suggestions as to how we could set something like this up.  We could possibly start a new section in the top admin bar and label it ‘Symptoms’.  Each person could start their own post and list the symptoms they have experienced, the time frame and the severity.  Members could then edit or add a comment to their post when they want to update their symptoms.  This could then be an easy resource for people specifically looking at exactly what each member experienced, how long for and to what severity.  It may be beneficial to make a template so that all the member posts are set up the same so they are easier to follow and understand.  Any ideas on a template are very welcome!

Now I want to know lots of things about Botox.

Can anyone here answer these questions? I can’t seem to get a clear answer from the internet.

Does the botox neurotoxin stay in the body, or is it cleared by the immune system?

Why is botox poisoning not dose-dependent?

From recent literature, it doesn’t seem like botox is ever safe, because the toxin does seem to travel “from the injection site” nearly always, and people are just not particularly noticing that they’ve been poisoned. Would anyone here agree?

If botox stays in the body indefinitely then is everyone who has been injected always at risk for a relapse or adverse event at any time in the future?

When I got my first injection a couple of years ago, I had only heard the stuff about how botox was VERY SAFE and there might be a “headache or flulike symptoms” or “migration from the injection site” which certainly communicates to me that botox could only migrate to the wrong part of my face or something, not my brain or spinal cord. Within the last couple of years something HAS changed in the literature and now one of the listed “side-effects” is a “botulism-like syndrome.” Has botox changed or have we?

The day I got my injections, I probably took aspirin and some vitamins, probably a ppi and I was prescribed a calcium channel blocker that I listed clearly on the intake form. I was never told by anyone that these might increase the risk of adverse events and I just would not have done it if I knew. But what I want to know is WHY these things increase the risk.

I am trying to figure out how screwed I am frankly. If I am going to be basically disabled from now on for example.



Botox used to relax my esophagus pre surgery.

I started having an issue with food and liquid going past my esophagus into my stomach about a year ago.  Food would get stuck and liquid would refuse to go down.  My body would hiccup to help move it along or it would eventually go down with quite a bit of pain.  Finally, nothing seemed to be going down and I was waking each night literally drowning in liquid and food.  My doctor sent me to get an upper GI.  The diagnosis was “Achalasia”  my esophagus was literally closed and turned up into what is known as a birds beak.   I was admitted to the hospital and had an upper endoscopy to confirm the diagnosis.  The Gastro told me that I had to make a decision right away whether I wanted to do a “Botox” treatment or surgery.  I asked if he could explain both and he said he didn’t have time.  Later that evening I was being taken to do the “Botox” treatment.  I was told that since it was Memorial day weekend that there wouldn’t be anyone available for the surgery and that the Botox would relax my esophagus until the surgery could be performed.  No explanation on how it was done exactly or any info on side effects or future care or concerns.  Within a couple of days I started to have confusion issues.   By two weeks after the injection I was having pretty serious memory and confusion issues.  I was extremely fatigued and dizziness was starting to be more frequent.  I thought these symptoms were from lack of food and possibly dehydration.  There was some food and liquid going down but not what would be considered usual.  I work with Senior Citizens and know as a fact that quite often major surgeries have been shelved for folks over 80 due to the fact that anesthesia can bring on dementia.  I personally have known quite a few over 80’s that have had anesthesia induced dementia.  So I thought that the problems I was having was from lack of nutrition, liquid and having anesthesia two times in one day for the “Achalasia” confirmation and treatment (Botox).  I scheduled my surgery, called a “Heller-Myotomy” for a little over 3 weeks from the Botox treatment.  I had an event that I was putting on that needed my attention before I could take the time off.  It ended up being the most stressful event of my entire marketing career.  I couldn’t figure out how to organize anything.  The day of the event I was so stressed, dizzy, confused, fatigued and was so filled with anxiety I didn’t think I was going to make it through the day.  After the event, which was a fundraiser, I couldn’t even add up a stack of checks that needed to be turned in before I was off for a couple of weeks to a month for my “Heller-Myotomy”.   Before I went in to the surgery the Anesthesiologist came by to see if I had any questions.  I told her that I was very concerned to go under anesthesia again due to the extreme confusion and memory issues I was experiencing since the two times three weeks earlier under anesthesia.  We decided since I couldn’t eat or drink I needed the surgery.  After the surgery I was extremely fatigued.  Slept a lot, had dizziness and still had pretty severe confusion and memory issues.  I thought they would go away as I healed.  2 weeks after surgery I was still experiencing all the above symptoms but my body was healing fine.  I was on a liquid diet for 30 days but I was getting my nutrition and calories so I didn’t think the fatigue, weakness, dizziness was still connected to the surgery.  About 3 weeks after my surgery and about 6-7 weeks after the Botox injection I started having speech difficulties.  Slurring and confusion on which words to use.  Even stuttering at times.   I feel the surgery for the “Achalasia” was a success.  The symptoms that I have discussed earlier are all over the map.  Some days I feel like I am coming out of it.  Maybe a little more clear, especially in the afternoons, not as fatigued, dizziness will lift although the memory issues don’t seem to lift much.  Then the next day I am trying to work and end up laying my head down on my arm as I try to keep my eyes open and concentrate on the task at hand.  Then the dizziness reappears, and the confusion and weakness along with the speech problems are just as bad if not worse.   I have had a CT scan,  every blood test available, even a spinal tap to try and find out what is causing these symptoms.  Nothing to be found.  My doctor thought I had an adrenal crash and after treatment from doubling my hormones we found that that wasn’t the case.   My surgeon has referred me to an Endocrinologist and I am waiting for an appt. with them.  The surgeon is convinced that I need a different general physician and wants me to meet with the Endocrine specialist.   My daughters father started looking into Botox, botulism poisoning and finally found this site.  I was experiencing such severe depression that I have never had before this wild ride that I literally thought I was losing my mind and asking for prayer from all who knew me to help me deal w/the depression and other symptoms.  When he told me he found this site, I broke down crying.  It lifted the huge dark cloud that had been hanging over my head for quite a while now.  It isn’t gone completely but I can breath just knowing this is real.  I am not crazy, imagining these symptoms.  I am going to do the 5 step detox tomorrow that is suggested from a site about the botulism poisoning.  I am willing to try it to see if I can function enough to do my job.  I may lose my job soon if I can’t find a way to be able to get behind the wheel of a car again, safely, and on the road.   I feel blessed to have found this site and I will keep all posted on my journey and will cherish all your input and wisdom.

Much Aloha for now,  Cathyann

Slowly but surely – recovery taking time but is real

Hello,  I have been on this site several times over the last 2 years and at the deepest hell pit of my symptoms can honestly say many of you saved my sanity!!! I am only registering and posting now to share my experience out of honest hope that I might be able to offer some of you a glimmer of optimism that recovery is real and can happen – though slowly with patience and courage.

My journey started in 2012 a as chronic migraine sufferer desperate for a treatment that would make a difference.  I received 4 rounds of injections over a near 10 month period. I got side effects (SEs) beginning approx 1 week after my initial treatment – only to be told what I was experiencing could in no way connected to Botox (sound familiar??). It took me a few rounds before I was able to start directly linking my SEs to the injections – hmmm – injections and symptoms – wow there is no coincidence. And it was discovering this website that gave me the proof I was looking for that I was not CRAZY like the MDs all told me I was! I am eternally grateful to this site and it’s members – because the night I discovered I was not alone I cannot begin to tell you what emotional relief it brought me.

Anxiety, and tachacardia have been the absolute biggest SEs I have had to manage in my recovery. Outside of a plethora of other SEs I experienced during active Botox treatments – feel free to review my profile –  the absolute worst was when I had 2 terrifying panic attacks  within about 1 month of each other – where I thought that’s it – sianara – off I go to the big blue yonder – convulsions and the works. I’m not posting today to relay all the horrors so many of you know too well in your own terrible journeys with this poison. Just reading the posts here sometimes sent me into panic over what might come next.  If you are in the deepest throws of your Botox nightmare right now – please believe me when I say it will get better – manage the best you can by whatever means brings you relief or support – and as hard as it sounds accept that time and deeply caring for yourself is the key – you are not alone – you are not crazy and it will get better! At least this has been my experience and I am confidant with time many of you will have the same.

I am now 17 months since my last injection. After reading many posts I was hopeful that I might find full recovery within about 6 to 12 months – and focussed on that.  While that hasn’t been my personal experience I can say that I now have literally weeks and sometimes months that will go by where I feel like I am almost back to my pre-Botox self – and then bam – a relapse will hit me out of the blue – for no apparent reason that I can link to.  That being said, the relapses are getting farther apart and when they happen they are more mild and manageable. While it winds my spirits and faith when it comes back – I remind myself that it will improve and pass (usually a couple of weeks) and I just need to stay focussed on believing that it has before and it will again. I now accept that my full recovery may still be a few years away. But when it does recur I know what it is, I know what to do and have the courage to continue to hang on.

My go to therapies have been healthy diet, massage, acupuncture, ativan for rescue when it gets bad and also tried calcium channel blockers to relieve my heart palpitations and anxiety. I only use ativan for rescue now when I have a relapse – it helps me fast when I feel a bad bout of anxiety coming on. Otherwise I try to ride out it out as best I can and take real comfort in the arms of my loving husband who has held my hand and heart throughout this nightmare.

If I were to say there is any silver lining in this nightmare it is this! I take much better care of myself now. I got healthier and more active and lost 50lbs and I am far more discerning of putting anything into my body.  This experience literally scared the crap out of me and I don’t take the precious days I have with my husband and family for granted. Not that I would ever have asked for or wished this upon anyone – but it forced me to get real with myself about many things including my health both physically and psychologically and see clearly that certain priorities in my life had to change. This was my wake up call and I had to answer it if there was to be any goodness that came from the nightmare.

I have reported my experience to my MDs and to Allergen and the local Health Authorities – but sadly don’t think it makes much difference. Though 1 MD professed he will be far more open to what other patients who may be using Botox experience. He termed me a “super responder” a patient with a high level of sensitivity to the drug. No shit!!!!

Thank you to all who have been brave enough to share your experiences and tips and offered heartfelt support to all of us affected.  You are helping more than you realize and in many meaningful ways – even to those who are invisible and looking for answers and some hope.

Take care and don’t lose hope,

HopefulD from Canada






Should I use Botox again? Please advise.

Hello everyone. I’m new here and seeking information about Botox. In February 2010 I tried botox for the first time at Straub Plastic Surgery Department in Honolulu, HI. They injected 40 units into the lines between the eyes, forehead, and around my mouth. I later had very strange symptoms. In an email to a friend I wrote, “My whole head burns, my neck, my arm, my chest. I even had pain inside eating. And I felt pain when my heart would beat, and when I would breathe, and it’s like a sunburn underneath my skin. Not to mention my face which is painful in of itself and always burning.” I recall feeling that the substance had travelled from near my mouth to my right arm and then downward over my upper body, a painful numbing burning. I saw a neurologist then who said it was mild botulism and would pass. It did pass, if I recall, within a few weeks, though the Botox worked in my face for the normal period of several months. I was convinced that the Botox  was administered improperly, so I did venture to try it again at another clinic in CA. I had about 20-30 units put in only between the eyes 8/11/11, 2/23/12, 3/22/12 and 5/15/12.
I didn’t have any ill effects from these injections that I was aware of.  2/16/11 I had anterior uveitis of the eye, a rare autoimmune inflammatory eye condition that arose out of the blue without apparent cause in one eye, but that was a year after my strange Botox reaction. I attributed  it to the high amount of emotional stress I was under unprecedented in my life, but stress is only considered a unofficial cause of that problem by doctors. In October of 2012 I had Botox injected in Germany. The doctor injected it above the eyebrows as well as between the eyes while I lay down. I remember feeling some numbness above my eyebrows and some unusual burning in my eye. It made me nervous but passed within about a week. In 1/12 I lost a notable amount of hair due to badly placed hair extensions and experienced some scalp burning. This improved somewhat with oral prednisone. But scalp burning is a documented side effect of hair loss.  5/12 a nerve in my neck/ scalp  was injured from leaning backward over an object and I experienced immediate scalp neuritis. Two months later, about the end of June 2012 at the start if July, 2 years 4 months from my original bad Botox experience but in the same year that I had several normal Botox experiences, a  centralized pain syndrome initiated. I was diagnosed with “Complex Regional Pain Syndrome” or Sympathetically Mediated Pain. Some doctors felt it might be Small Fiber Neuropathy though I have my doubts on that diagnosis. I experienced a host of terrifying symptoms. To list a few initially there was passing numbness, “purple” feet from widespread circulation problems, widespread aching pain, upper body burning pain, hot and cold sensations, electric sensations and shocks, feeling of being wet on my skin, tenderness, twitching, sensitivity to pain, traveling intense pain etc. A lot of the symptoms in the first months subsided to what I have today which is basically a collection of injuries from the treatments I attempted added to the original pain syndrome which has stabilized. I take Lyrica, naltrexone, cyclobenzyprine, Clonazepam… I have bodywide aching which varies based on weather etc., upper body burning that intensifies with stress, electric shocks with extreme stress, continued scalp neuritis and occipital neuralgia, intersitial cystitis, a femoral nerve injury from an injection… And more but most important here however is that both my arms were made worse, one by an IV needle injury and the other by a blood draw in the left arm. One needle prick and the entire arm felt as though glass was running through my veins, burning, extreme sensitivity to touch, and stiffness in joints. My left arm is worst, It feels as though the needle is always there in my arm, it can’t tolerate touch or pressure, and aches and burns. Now, back to Botox. Botox was originally suggested to me again as a treatment for my occipital neuralgia. If I can help the original injury which is thought to have caused the CRPS then everything else might improve. They think that the muscles around the nerve may be in spasm. The idea would be to inject it into the muscles that may be putting pressure on my occipital nerve And release the nerve. Botox is often used to help CRPS patients. In addition I would like to continue the Botox between my eyes as not only did it help me with the wrinkles I had there but staved away my migraines for quite some time. The other day I was ready to try Botox again, first between my eyes as usual and by the injector that never lead me to have negative effects, but I decided to research the matter further first. I don’t like that I don’t have a good explaination for why I had such an unusual reaction to Botox in 2010 but then except for one time in Germany , the four other injections went smoothly. I also have to be concerned about the needle as a source of injury in my condition, but on this forum I’m looking into the Botox itself. Does my unusual nervous system presentation make me more likely to be a candidate for a catastrophic bodywide problem with Botox like many here describe? Or could Botox be helpful to me. Is there a way to prove that the 2010 incident was an isolated Incident? Is there any link whatsoever between what happened in 2010 and the nerve issues which cascaded upon me in the following four years? I would appreciate hearing anyone’a thoughts and stories as I decide whether Botox is worth another try. i realize many of you have had terrible consequences as a result of Botox. I have asked Stanford doctors, a Brown University fellow and a plastic surgeon whether they think Botox could be a cause for my pain and none think so. Nerve pain symptoms from CRPS may overlap with the types of symptoms you all feel, yet they may still be caused by CRPS which is caused by a nerve injury in my case. Before I rush to judge that I have been a victim if Botox too simply because I tried it, I have nerve problems, and my original experience produced a bad result, I need facts. I’m here on a fact- finding mission. I haven’t spent much time yet on this forum as I have spent a lot of time on forums for my diagnosis and haven’t yet had the time, but I plan to. I was hoping rather than getting just an all out warning against Botox  I could hear some facts and possibly links to studies etc. If someone came into the CRPS forum asking for information I know I could distill years of reading into a few simple paragraphs- if someone could do that for me I would be very grateful. Thank you.

Making YouTube Videos

At many times in these last horrendous two years I’ve thought of making YouTube videos to chronicle what I’ve been through. It seems it would be a far more wide-reaching and effective educational tool warning people about all that can go wrong with this poison, it would make the topic more public, and it would open myself up to lots of criticism.

YouTube is full of success stories on Botox, doctor videos on how to inject it and its benefits, and those that are negative are usually of the more cosmetic kind, which usually resolve themselves in a matter of weeks or months. Very few (any?) are on the debilitating, long-term physical and psychological/neurological effects.

My concerns would be:
-Maintaining my anonymity (so I need to wear a mask or get better at video editing software so I can blur or pixelate my face, and perhaps alter my voice) – It would obviously be damaging to my professional and personal life to have my face out there talking about this stuff, and may also make me more subject to harassment from the pharmaceutical companies.
-Legal ramifications of slandering the product. There are, however, huge amounts of videos on people who had negative effects on other medications, such as antidepressants, and freely name them.

Would anyone else be willing to contribute videos? Does anyone have any thoughts on this?

Recovery Story from Karyn – originally posted under member ‘nomorebotox’ – thread ‘vision issues after Botox’

I have now fully recovered from the Botox nightmare which I had injected in March 2010. At the time I felt so alone and so scared. Everyone thought I was just having a mental breakdown and the Doctors refused to make any connection with the Botox, mainly through their own ignorance about the poison.

I am sorry to hear of your hellish experience too. I feel for you and for everyone on this site but I would like to offer hope that for me I feel as though I have finally come out of the tunnel and life can move on. I’m just surprised that I wasn’t put in to some mental asylum as nobody believed me and everyone just thought I wasn’t coping with life in general. I lost my job at the time. I nearly lost my husband and I feel as though I am very lucky to have survived. You will get better. If you have survived this far you will continue to survive. You are a fighter.

Botox Research

Sandi recently posted regarding a study that she is conducting that is exploring the use of Botox and fillers and there effects on women.

She has not had any responses as of yet.  I can understand members holding back in regard to legal action and confronting Allergan etc – these are processes in which we have to identify ourselves and really be in a position in which we can be judged by our experiences.   I believe that we have nothing to hide however I do understand that when dealing with multi million dollar industries it can be difficult to feel heard and understood without prejudice.

This, however, is an opportunity to have your say with total privacy and confidentiality.  I really hope that members will take the time to contact Sandi and share their experiences.  You can find her posts under the ‘Members’ area  – Sandi Berwick.

Iatrogenic Botulism – Advice for those who find this website immediately after onset of symptoms

Hi – I received an email from Maria with the following information:

I’m trying to gather articles and found some very interesting information. Our condition is called iatrogenic botulism. There are several reports describing this.
I see that same investigation and treatment is made in such cases:
1) Serum toxin level (mouse test). Two mice are sprayed with your blood. The mouse that received anti-toxin survive. This is the only way to measure the toxin into your body.
2) EMG
Almost all patients have received anti-toxin as the only means of preventing more severe symptoms in the future. In one case, it’s been more than 2 months before the antitoxin was given. It should be given as soon as possible! We need to write advice for those who find our web site immediately after onset of symptoms in the new topic.
1) Go to the hospital and ask for the mouse test,
2) Anti-Toxin must be given
3) EMG
4) Condition is called iatrogenic botulism.

Maria is also going to complete a study on this – I hope that all of the members on the site will be able to contribute information to Maria when she requires it. Thanks so much for this Maria – this is going to help many people in the future to avoid the terrible symptoms we have had to deal with.

What information do we require from individuals to present a case to authorities?

Anne has started a thread in regard to changing policies for the administration of Botox/Dysport – what information do you think we need to provide in order to push for policies to be changed? Please add whatever you can think of – big or small – and then this becomes a community effort. If we all collate our information we can hopefully provide a form that can be filled out by anyone who wishes to help with changing these policies.

Reporting Side Effects – Botox/Dysport

We have had a suggestion from one of our members (bronxboricua) to outline details for reporting side effects of Botox and Dysport. As each country will be different I will outline contact details for Australia and would appreciate any help from members with information for this process for their country.

This is a great suggestion and I will also start a new thread for feedback on the reporting process eg What you reported, how it was handled and did you get any feedback from the organisation that you reported your side effects to.

Annette and Cameron – offline for a few days

Hi all,

Just a quick note to say that Annette and I are moving house at the moment, and there seems to be problems in our area getting wireless broadband… all of which means that we are going to be without internet for a few days :-(

We feel bad being offline, and just wanted to let you know that we are not ignoring e-mails or posts. We will back online ASAP will make sure that we get back to you all.

Thanks for your patience.

Cameron & Annette.

Article 2: What happens if the toxin spreads?

If the toxin does spread into the bloodstream and diffuses into body tissue it is particularly attracted to the membrane nerve endings of the peripheral nervous system.  We are extremely lucky that the only portion of the body that the toxin cannot spread is the Central Nervous System – the toxin molecule is too large to penetrate the blood-brain barrier.

At this stage there is a bilateral (two-sided – left/right sides of body) attack on the cranial nerves.  Our 5 senses are controlled by 12 pairs of cranial nerves.  So I think at this stage lets look at the Peripheral Nervous System and its function:

The areas outside of the brain and spinal cord are controlled by the Peripheral Nervous System.  This system is divided as follows:

Sensory portion – sends nerve impulses from the sense organs to the CNS

Motor division – sends nerve impulses from the CNS to the muscles or glands

Ok so now we also divide the Motor division into two separate areas known as the:

Somatic Nervous System – takes care of activities that are consciously controlled and usually involve the skeletal muscles – also contains many of the nerves that are part of reflexes that act automatically.

Autonomic Nervous System – controls bodily functions that are not consciously controlled.  It’s overall function is to maintain homeostasis balance in the functioning of the bodily organs and systems.  This system is further divided into two parts:

Sympathetic – usually speeds up action or activity and controls organs and systems when they are stressed by environmental factors. (effects things such as dilating pupils, inhibits flow of saliva, accelerates heartbeat, dilates bronchi, inhibits peristalsis and secretion, conversion of glycogen to glucose, secretion of adrenaline and noradrenaline and inhibits bladder contraction)

Parasympathetic – regulates activity when the body is at rest and its action is normally to slow down activity. (effects things such as inhibits pupil dilation, stimulates flow of saliva, slows heartbeat, constricts bronchi, stimulates peristalsis and secretion, stimulates release of bile and contracts bladder.

After Botulinum poisoning the head and neck are the initial starting point and the symptoms include double vision, difficulty in seeing with blurred vision, problems with speaking and swallowing and droopy eyelids.  Depending on the amount of toxin consumed/injected and the immune system of the person will vary the progression of the symptoms and any paralysis.  The brain is not attacked so the person is still alert and aware of what is happening.

Botulism is not a common disease so many Dr’s will have had no experience with diagnosing it.  This leads to no diagnosis or mistaken diagnosis such as Myasthenia Gravis, stroke, tick paralysis, shellfish poisoning or Gullian-Barre syndrome.  Once the toxin attaches to a nerve it will be a long time before that protein toxin will be broken down and can release that nerve – recovery usually involves the growth of new motor axon strands that attach to and REINNERVATE previously paralysed muscle fibers – unfortunately this is a LONG process that usually takes weeks or even months :( to complete in adults.

Information obtained from ‘Botulism’ – Author Donal Emmeluth

So as you can well imagine the symptoms can be numerous and varied due to the complexity of the Peripheral Nervous System – the one bonus I take from all of this information is that the PNS can REPAIR itself……..even though some of us have to wait many many months at least we eventually achieve recovery.

So my questions are:

What causes the toxin to spread in some and not others?

Or does it spread in all of us but some have stronger immune systems?

Does the preparation/dilution of Botox effect it’s ability to spread?

Does the amount of Botox or where it is injected make it more likely to spread?

On the Allergan website they state ‘No DEFINITIVE serious adverse event reports of distant spread of toxin effect associated with dermatologic use of BOTOX/BOTOX cosmetic at the labeled dose of 20 Units (for Glabellar lines) or 100 Units (for severe primary axillary hyperhidrosis) have been reported’

First of all define ‘DEFINITIVE’ – does that mean it has to be linked in a lab to the Botox injections?  So they get, for example, 10,000 reports of extreme side effects but none of these people have been asked to have medical examinations by Allergan for specific links – or they have submitted a report to Allergan but Allergan haven’t responded so of course there is going to be NO definitive link.

I must say though that at least Allergan have attempted to outline side effects and also make it clear that a medical history and clinical management from a Dr is essential – so really the weakest link appears to be the people injecting us.  If they have not taken your medical history and explained these specific risks outlined in the Allergan document then they are being unethical and compromising their duty of care?  Why is that we trust people who want to inject us with a toxin?  Why are people allowed to inject Botox without a prescription, clinical management or a medical history evaluation?????

If they were anything like me I went to multiple health professionals and they had no idea and told me to wait it out – even if they did think there was a link how could they prove it???? Where were they going to send me for Botox lab tests?  My doctor couldn’t find any tests for Botulism………… So really the word ‘definitive’ is a COP OUT!!!!!!! So consumers BEWARE!!!

I would also like to discuss the point that they have specifically stated exact unit amounts – 20 and 100 – does this mean that they have had links for 18 units or 105 but this has been omitted from the pamphlet???? I don’t know what do you think?