I am now almost 3 years out and I have now firmly established that any substance /activity that stimulates the adrenals causes a relapse in symptoms. I have recently upped my thyroid medication and had severe symptoms that even regular doses of copper are not really helping (Copper normally gets rid of all relapses in a day or two) I believe that besides the obvious ones like caffeine, Vitamin C and substances that directly stimulate adrenals other supplements , exercise and even some foods may cause a relapse as they may be mildly stimulatory to a very easily excitable adrenal system.
There are a lot of people from other support groups like Botox Dysport Support on Facebook trying to join this group with no success , has something gone wrong?
As many others have reported I am very sensitive to most medications and a lot of supplements . A friend of mine who suffers from depression and anxiety brought a machine around which he has used with great results. It is a cranial electro-stimulating device. You attach clips to your earlobes and it sends electric currents into your brain . I was a bit sceptical but after 20 minutes a day for a week my anxiety levels were right down and my sleep has improved by leaps and bounds. I have now purchased one of my own. I bought the Alpha Stim but there are others on the market too. The downside is that they are really pricey but if they work for you are well worth the money. This is a drug free way of managing anxiety and depression .
Botulinum toxin may travel further than expected in nerve cells
The botulinum toxins are among the deadliest substances on Earth, and two specific toxins — including the popular drug Botox — have multiple uses for treating many neuromuscular conditions, including frown lines, disabling muscle spasms and migraine headaches.
The botulinum toxins cancel nerve signals to the muscles, creating paralysis that can last for months. Given its extraordinary toxicity, doses are typically measured in trillionths of a gram, and targets are carefully chosen to silence only the desired motor nerves.
When Botox and related botulinum drugs entered the market, “the idea was that they are safe to use, they stay where they are injected, and you don’t have to worry about toxin going to the central nervous system and causing weird effects,” says Edwin Chapman, an investigator at the Howard Hughes Medical Institute and professor of neuroscience at the University of Wisconsin—Madison.
The concern that this powerful toxin can move beyond the injection site was reinforced in 2009, when the Food and Drug Administration added a prominent warning to prescribing information “to highlight that botulinum toxin may spread from the area of injection to produce symptoms consistent with botulism,” including “unexpected loss of strength or muscle weakness. … Understand that swallowing and breathing difficulties can be life-threatening and there have been reports of deaths related to the effects of spread of botulinum toxin.”
Additionally, physicians have seen puzzling results from treatment, adds Ewa Bomba-Warczak, a doctoral candidate in neuroscience. “In many cases, after an injection for a disabling spasm of neck muscles called cervical dystonia, there is no change in muscle tone but the patient finds relief and is perfectly happy. That result can’t be explained by the local effects.”
In a study published today (Aug. 4, 2016) in Cell Reports, senior author Chapman, first author Bomba-Warczak and colleagues present clear evidence that toxin is moving between neurons in a lab dish.
The study looked at mouse neurons in wells connected by tiny channels that allow growth of axons — the long fibers that neurons use to communicate.
In tests of two botulinum toxins, the researchers saw toxin molecules entering the injected cell, as expected.
Once inside a neuron, botulinum toxin cleaves proteins responsible for fusion of chemical containers, known as vesicles, with the plasma membrane. This fusion event releases chemical signals that underlie communication with muscles, and the inability to fuse leads to the temporary paralysis caused by botulinum toxin.
Using antibodies to identify fragments of the damaged proteins, Chapman’s group showed that toxin molecules were moving to nerve cells in wells that had not initially received the harmful molecules. “Every time one fraction of the toxin acts locally (on the first nerve cell it contacts), another fraction acts at a distance,” says Chapman. “It’s unknown how far they travel, which likely depends on the dose of toxin and other factors.”
Co-author Jason Vevea, a UW–Madison postdoctoral fellow, produced videos showing tagged molecules of botulinum toxin moving along the axons connecting neurons.
Botulinum toxins were first described in the 1800s, and have long been a subject of research at UW–Madison. Allergan PLC, which markets four versions of botulinum toxin, reported global Botox sales of nearly $2 billion in 2015.
By finding that toxin molecules don’t always stay where they are injected, Chapman says the Wisconsin study answers a long-standing question about mobility, but raises several more. “We have seen that these toxins enter neurons at the injection site, causing the desired local paralysis, but Ewa and Jason have shown unambiguously the existence of a second entry pathway that takes some of the toxin molecules to other neurons.”
The research, done in a lab dish, removes variables that have plagued similar studies performed in animals, Chapman says. “We wanted to see if we could build an in vitro (in a dish) system that allows direct visualization of this putative movement, in a way that’s simple, easy to interpret, and unambiguous. Do they move, or do they not?”
Chapman wonders about the effects of extraordinarily powerful toxin molecules that travel the neural networks. Local effects have, until now, been deemed the sole effects. But could part of its effects be due to the transported toxin?
“It’s an exciting prospect, supplanting a $2 billion drug with a safer drug.”
These questions could be answered by genetically engineering the Clostridium bacteria that make botulinum toxin to alter the toxin’s structure, Chapman says. “We may be in a position to mutate the part of the toxin that attaches to a receptor on the neuron so it can only enter the local pathway, not this new pathway we have described.”
If only the local effects matter for medicine, tomorrow’s versions of this ancient toxin molecule may be able to alleviate symptoms from wrinkles to severe muscle spasms without moving beyond the target neurons.
“I have a hard time imagining that any physician is going to want to inject something they know can move about when they have an option to use something that stays put,” Chapman says. “It’s an exciting prospect, supplanting a $2 billion drug with a safer drug.”
– See more at: http://news.wisc.edu/botulinum-toxin-study-proves-possibility-of-remote-effects/#sthash.rA51isuY.dpuf
I am 13 months in and am having a bad flare up at the moment. My relapses usually last about 5 days to a week but this one is over 4 weeks now . It always starts with bad anxiety and then as the anxiety subsides all the eye, ear and brain and nerve symptoms kick in. I have tried almost every supplement and vitamin known to mankind to rid my body and brain of this toxin . Besides Sxeletium Seraphos and Picamilon which I take for the anxiety nothing else seems to help and I am very sensitive to most pharmaceutical drugs. Benzos for instance do not work at all on me . Many pharmacetical SSRI.s for instance only work on about 70 percent of people so the rest of us need to find alternatives. I have recently tried cannabis oil but it does not help either. I have decided that I might try Ayahuasca. It is an ancient South American potion that has been used as a powerful healing substance for thousands of years and there is now renewed interests in its amazing healing properties. It has been successfully used to treat psychological/emotional issues such as ptsd, depression and anxiety but there is now some fairly concrete evidence that it seems to have had some good results on many physiological issues. The Ayahuasca is administered in a controlled environment by experienced practitioners and is relatively safe when proper diet and pre-preparation has taken place . As botox poisoning affects the mind body and soul I think there would surely be some benefit in this treatment. I am researching on how the Ayahuasca may react with the botox itself but not much is available on the subject. I am going to contact some clinics abroad to discuss this with people who may have some idea. Ayahuasca is illegal here in the UK but legal in many other countries which have these clinics. . At this point legal means nothing to me as botox is legal and is deadly so my mindset has changed drastically as to who one can trust. Pharmaceutical company pressure probably got Ayahuasca banned in more corrupt countries like the UK and US where lobbyists grease politicians palms handsomely. It works and cant be patented…shock horror. Sorry to rant but I hate the fact that much research is blocked by big pharma scared of losing profits. I work in mental health so am very aware of what goes on as far as banning of substances that cannot be patented are concerned. Oh well I will update when I find out more. I am at the point now where I will try anything to get rid of this hideous poison I have mistakingly put in my body over and over again .
Has anyone else had thinning hair or hair loss after botox? My hair fell out in handfulls as soon as the botox kicked in and has not grown back much although I am only six months in. I have been fine for a long time but had a bad relapse last week and am only just starting to level out Bad anxiety, shaking, blocked ears, nausea, dizziness, bladder issues, numb hands and all the usual . I am now taking Picamilon which is a Gaba supplement which seems to have calmed me down enough to sleep and function. I am back on all my detox supplements again . :(
Hi I wonder if anyone else experienced hair loss after botox. Mine was falling out in handfulls .
I have now hit the 6 week mark and am now feeling remarkably better, compared to how I felt even a week ago. I have been taking cilantro and chlorella for about 2 weeks and have noticed my skin is breaking out in spots and I have a boil or two as well. I think the toxins must be coming out or something is happening as I have not had spots or boils since I was a teenager. I have also noticed that I can already frown which usually only happens after about 12 to 16 weeks. I wonder if the cilantro and chlorella are flushing the botox out or is this just a coincedance? My brain fog has lessened and for the first time I can sleep without medication . I dont know if this is just a good patch I am going through or whether I am detoxing. I am going to the toilet more often which is supposed to be a sign of detoxing. The numbness in my hands has also gone. My anxiety levels are still nowhere near normal but far better than even a week ago. I went to the gym for the first time this evening but still feel weak and had to cut my session short as I was too weak and out of breath to carry on. I still have ringing in my ears most of the time and eye twitches and my vision is still poor . Has anyone else had a remarkable improvement after taking the cilantro and chlorella? I would be really interested to know
I am now in week 5 post botox and I have noticed it has a particular cyclic effect on my brain . I go through phases of feeling very wired where my body speeds up and I feel like I have taken too much of my thyroid medication. I am constantly hungry, my mind is racing, I am shaky , my throat feels slightly swollen, my eyes feel dry and focus is blurry. The toxin is obviously affecting thyroid function and speeds up everything. If I take ANY of my prescribed thyroid meds (NDT)during this time I basically go into orbit and all these symptoms treble in severity. I am completely unable to sleep at night but I take 2 sleep aid(restavit) pills (doxycyclene) which is over the counter in lost of countries and prescription in others. This makes my body relax completely and I spend most of the night experiencing creative thoughts which border onto hallucinations . I also take one 250mg sceletium which is a South African herb and that helps calm and restore neurotransmitter function.
This phase lasts for about 4 to 7 days. After that everything changes and I become very tired and sleepy and depressed. I lose my appetite and everything becomes an effort, This is a horrible phase as although I can sleep the world is a dull grey place . I beleive this is caused by the thyroid shutting down temporarily.
After having read a lot about stuff like bipolar disorder I think the botox induces a bipolar type cycle in my brain. Latest reseach says that a lot of bipolar issues are caused by faulty thyroid function.
Before I had my first botox injections 10 years ago I had no mental health or thyroid issues whatsoever so the botox has created this and when the botox wears off this goes away completely and I function more of less like normal. It has taken me 10 years of botox to understand that this is the cause of my issues and although I am only 5 weeks in since my last shots I now know that this will all go away like it has all those times before .
I think for all of you with lingering symptoms similar to mine maybe a thyroid function test is a good route to explore . ,The normal TSH test doctors give will NOT help much as your tsh can be fine but your T3 levels can be completely out of kilter, A full thyroid panel measuring your t3 and t4 function would be relevent. I beleive the botox disrupts the t3 and that makes you hyper and causes insomnia, if you feel tired all the time your body may not be converting the t3 into t4 and that can be easily managed with t3 meds. How it workds is that ones body converts t4 into t3 and that makes usable thyroxine available for bodily fuction , if this gets disrupted you will either becoe hyperthyroid ( go to fast, not sleep etc) or hypo which is the opoosite. Please google the symptoms for both. You would have to find a doctor who is in favour of bio identical hormones to go down this route as thyroxine the common medication would not do a thing to help the conversion of t3 into t4, a selnium supplement might help a little but natural dessicated thyroid derived from animal thyroid would be the ideal fix. I only started having thyroid issues after I started on Botox so I believe its a biggy and hopefully can help point others in the right direction
Hi All . After more research I realize the main reason botox affects some of us so badly is that it enters the Cental Nervous System and switches off neurotransmitters at random. At the weekend after a massage I suddenely developed a blinding headache with a stiff neck and shoulders. I can only presume some toxins had been released and were circulating. I felt depressed, was in terrible pain , dizzy and other symptoms. I took some really strong painkillers , did not work. I took 2 strong sleeping tabIets, absolutely nothing. I usually take a half a sleeping tablet if I cant sleep and it lasts 10 hours. took various other meds that normally calm me down, nothing worked. Painkillers and sleeping tabs work on gaba receptors so they had completely shut down. Calmers work on seratonin receptors , they had completely shut down. I beleive when the toxin is circulatiing ALL receptors including dopamine receptors shut down and nothing can cross the blood brain barrier rendering all medications useless for a time. I also know that one becomes ultra sensitive to ANY stimulant so no coffee or nothing to speed one up. I take t3 thyroid medication which also has a stimulating effect . I have had to now drop three quarters of my dose as otherwise I get panic attacks and anxiety so if you take ANY meds with a stimulatory effect like NDT thyroid or ritalin or certain other cns drugs STOP them immediately and lower your dose until you find you feel a dose that you feel ok with. Doctors are NOT going to help you so you need to take responsibility and find what is right for you until you heal. This will make a huge difference. I think it is really important to take detox herbs such as chlorella and NAC and milk thistle and as much vitamin B complex as ou can tolerate, be careful as B vits also have a stimulatory effect as well as vitamin D and Fish Oil, they can all make you anxious and jittery. Take a dose that feels right for you. Your nervous system is in meltdown so you will be sesnitive to everything . I found Seriphos is a good calmer as it lowers cortisol . Also sceleteum tortuosem which feeds your seratonin and dopamine receptors making your mood stable. I would personally stay away from stuff like Xanax which is addictive and a bit toxic. Some days meds dont work and others they work fine, it is the nature of this horrible poison that makes everything completely unpredictable . I will carry on with my research and let you all know what I have tried as I am going to try all sorts of different remedies and use this horrible journey as a tool to find things that can maybe help others .
After extensive reading I have learned that botox affects the snap25 gene, paralysing the neurons, the tests that have been done so far say that botulism A (botox) does not destroy the neuron only the C and E strain BUT and this is the big but if one has a mutation of the snap25 gene and apparently a percentage of the population does have this mutation, there is a possiblilty this could affect one in a much more significant way. If the neurons do become affected , your dopamine receptors will not work. This all has to do with the dopamine neurotransmitters and if they are deactivated it will cause anxiety, nausea .depression , foggy thinking, feelings of hopelessness , inability to focus ,low libido and inability to orgasm , basically the pleasure center of your brain shuts down . I think this sums up my symptoms pretty much. The botox has switched my dopamine receptors off . Google low dopamine symptoms and see if the symptoms match your side effects. This is only my theory but I think its very possible, This could be a game changer as there could be lawsuits around insufficient testing of the product.
A lifesaver for me has been sceletium tortoseum, t completely takes the anxiety away, it is herbal and totally non addictive , it is by far the best thing for botox anxiety as it takes it away completely. I take 200 mg once a day and that keeps the lid on it all. It comes from South Africa and you can order it online .
Hi I am from the UK and have been having botox for frown lines for over 10 years. During this time I have had periods where I have had sever anxiety and panic attacks, stomach issues, adrenal and hormone issues, joint pain, bladder infections and a host of other symptoms. I always noticed my symptoms would get worse and months later would suddenly fade away. I never once considered it may be the botox. On 26 June this year I had botox once again. Felt a bit weird for a day and then nothing. 10 days later I had the most severe panic attack I have ever experienced. It is now a week later and I am feeling anxious and am hardly coping at all. I am taking Sceletium and Seriphos which are both excellent supplements to calm myself down. I then decided to look back in my diary to see when I had the last botox, September 2014 and guess what, I had such a sever panic attack a few days after I had to be taken to the hospital. I then looked back even further to November 2013, bout of severe panic attacks and a host of symptoms so yes I now know the culprit. I am so annoyed as I have been feeling so well lately and now I am back to square one and this is the worst by far I have ever felt. I can now clearly see that what I thought were thyroid or hormonal issues (and so did my doctor) are all related to this poison.
The funny thing is I almost spent the money on some clothes and not botox but my mothers voice in my head “ladies with wrinkles are ignored by the world” was obviously well embedded in my head. The negative self beliefs that we learn as children and young people seem to encourage self defeating behaviours, this is a classic example. I am 55 years old I SHOULD have lines on my face. Before starting botox I was a happy go lucky cheerful soul, this poison has turned me into an anxiety ridden person, barely able to cope. I know in 6 to 9 months I will feel better but I think the damage is cumulative and probably changes the dna or alters neurotransmitter function permanently. I and I’m sure many on this site have had to learn the hard way. The warnings about this poison are well documented but I chose to ignore them and followed the negative messages in my head. This has been a huge lesson and some important therapy for me . I will spend the recovery time exploring the negative self beliefs I have and try to replace them with more positive ones which will avoid making bad choices in the future.
Love and peace